Mary
Welcome everybody to this amazing session of Industry Expert magazine and podcast. I am unbelievably excited to introduce this next guest whom I have been waiting for so long to interview. She’s just absolutely dynamite, and it’s my honor and pleasure to introduce you to Heidi Dugan, who’s a TV host, presenter, celebrity, author, entrepreneur, and wellness advocate. These are just some of the terms used to describe her. She’s lived in China for over 26 years and became the first foreign TV host to have her own TV show there. It’s called ”You Are The Chef,” a live show that reaches over 6 million viewers daily. She is also the live host of the Oriental Shopping Channel and completed up to $2 million in sales in one and a half hours.
Heidi has received awards such as Best Foreign TV Host, most popular Foreign TV host, international Leading Women in Business of the Year, international Alumnus of the Year, and Australia China Alumni Award for the Arts and Creative Industries.
She is the director of her company, Arete group. Companies and brands working with Heidi have the strategic advantage to successfully integrate into the community, connect with the consumer, and ultimately build their business faster in one of the largest economic markets in the world. Her influence across Australia and China has been recognized through her media coverage on Channel Nine News, Australian Financial Review, Harper’s Bazaar, and China Daily, just to name a few.
She partners with the Shanghai government and Shanghai Women’s Association to help better educate and train women in health, nutrition, and parenting. Heidi is the chair of Austcham Shanghai and a council member of the University of Southern Queensland. She’s also a qualified chair for advisory boards.
Heidi, I don’t think I can add anything else to that except to welcome you because is there anything you haven’t done?
Heidi
There are so many things I haven’t done yet. You know what it’s like; you know life is meant to be grabbed by the horns and just embraced.
Mary
Well, welcome, and let’s talk about celebrity and influence. And anyone listening to this interview who’s from Australia, the US, the UK, and New Zealand may not know who Heidi is, but if you are from any of the Asian countries, particularly China, you absolutely do know, and we’ll touch on that shortly. But for now, I want the audience to get to know you. I’ve had the privilege of talking to you, and I feel like I’ve known you for so, so long. You have so much heart, you have so much energy, you have breadth, you have depth, and I want to set the stage for our audience because I want to take them on a journey in this interview. Why don’t you give us a two-minute backstory of Heidi?
Heidi
HeidiI grew up sort of moving around quite a lot, so I became quite independent. I decided to get into acting and studied acting, and got a scholarship in business to go to Japan for a short period of time. I realized that there was this whole other world out there. Through my father, I got the opportunity to study international trade in the center of China. And that was the key point where I came and was opened up to China. And from there, while studying in Shanghai, I got offered a job at a TV station to groom TV hosts, because foreigners weren’t allowed to be hosts on international TV.
But once they created this new channel, we were able to get the license to be on TV. So I got on TV, and then we had the show ”You are the Chef.” People talk about it now as a cult show because it was the show that was around. And Chinese people are absolutely obsessed with food, and they’re incredibly good at cooking a great variety of delectable dishes. From that, I started working with food brands and then working with brands coming into the country, wanting to be exposed to the consumer. And at that point, I had my connection with the consumers and had a large following.
I also had a business background and was doing a lot of localizing for strategy, and business strategies for China for large companies. And so it was really a combination of bringing those two things together. And you are always your best when you’re able to not fit into a mold but to take all the things that you are great at and bring them together and create something completely different. That is probably my strength to know really who I am, what I’m good at, and to look out and think, ”Okay, who needs that?” And to bring it together.
Mary
You are just a powerhouse. So China is now your home. You have a family in China and an established business there. What was the process for you, becoming the first foreigner awarded a license to broadcast live in China to an audience of 30 million? On top of that, you’ve literally become one of China’s top celebrities. I’m asking this question, Heidi, because a lot of people dream of becoming a celebrity, and there are lots of different notions of celebrity. Please walk us through that process from working with celebrities, so to speak, and then becoming the celebrity yourself.
Heidi
For me, the word celebrity is a term that has been applied to what I do. It’s an end result, but it’s what people say as well, that it really is a term that says that that person is well known throughout the world. So you can be a celebrity on TV, for coaching, for a sport – anything like that. But the person behind that term, and I talk from my experience, is someone who knows themselves, knows where they want to go, and follows their dream. And when you are really confident and clear about it, you become better and better. And because you become better, you become more well-known.
Every celebrity is very, very good at something. And even a model is very good at grooming themselves to look great in photos. So when someone gets called a celebrity, we can pretty much know that they did something really well. And sometimes you get celebrities who have a very bad reputation, but they did it well. They did it so that everyone knew about it. So that for me has been my core thing: I know who I am, I pursue my goals, and I pursue my dreams. I try to incorporate many amazing people into my dream so that we can go on the journey together. And when we do really well, people talk about us, and other people want to know about us.
Mary
Heidi, I want to raise another question in between all of that, and something that I think a lot of people struggle with. How much does courage play in this? Because so many people in our audience here are industry experts. They’re well established in their area of specialization. But I would say at least seven out of 10 are frightened to put themselves out there on a platform like LinkedIn, which is a public arena. So how much does courage play in this? I’m making the assumption that it’s still scary no matter which angle you come from. So walk us through the mindset that’s required when you are packaged really well, and now you have to put yourself out there in the public arena. What is the mindset? What does the heart say about all of this?
Heidi
I think courage is easy when you believe in yourself and when you are doing it for yourself. When you are trying to please other people, then you cannot only fail, but you are creating an image that you don’t want. So I know what I want, and I actually dictate my success by the number of times that I feel like, ”Can I do it? You know what? I’m just going to go for it!” Because those are the moments that make up my life, and I realize this is what living’s all about.
There are times when it seems as though I have a foot on my chest holding me down. But is it mine or someone else’s? And I sometimes feel like I’m shackled and being held back, and I think that perhaps my dream is not big enough to take the foot off to break those chains. And then I get that kind of feeling of when you’re about to jump off the edge of a bridge and you think, ”Oh, my God, that looks like fun! I want to do that.”
So you climb over the edge and you hold onto the bridge. There’s water underneath at you, and you stand there wondering, ”What the hell was I thinking?” But you’re there. And you scream, ”You know what? I’m going to do it!” So you jump off and there’s that fear and exhilaration, and you’re screaming, and you land in the water, knowing that’s what it’s all about. And then you decide to do it again. But it is easier the second time, so you’ll do it a third time. And that’s what life’s about. The exhilaration!
Mary
Well, they say that you should do the very thing that you fear or step into the actual fear and experience it because that is the best way to actually release it. And there’s so much emotion and feeling connected to all of those limitations that we put on ourselves. So I think that you are right. You know, it’s just an extension of ”just go for it.” What’s the worst thing that can happen?
Heidi
And that’s why it’s really important that you do it for yourself. Not for someone else, because you are the person that should be judging whether you failed or didn’t. And that’s why when people ask me what are some of the big failures that I’ve had, I honestly can’t really think of them. Why? Because I’ve had many challenges, but to fail for me is to have not succeeded and then just give up. I never do that. If I decide this is not something I want to continue to pursue, that was a conscious decision for me to let it go. But when you are worried about someone else’s opinion on whether you failed, then that’s a different story. And that fear is not something you can control as much because you are being judged by someone else, and you care about that. I try not to let myself get in that position only with people that I care about, that I love, and that I know will look out for me.
Mary
That’s absolutely solid advice right there. What I love about you, Heidi is your openness. The first time you and I connected, I said to you, ”Where have you been all my life?” And I think that is why opportunities are drawn to you, honestly. And of course, we’re talking about celebrity and influence in this interview because I know that our readers are drawn to that idea. They’re industry experts. They really want to be known as go-to experts in their area of expertise and are looking at ways to leverage their expertise and take it into new territories. Right after I met you, I immediately thought about Tina Arena, who, for those that don’t know who she is, is a very well-known artist here in Australia.
But actually, she became a very well-known celebrity and influencer in France, not Australia. And sometimes the opportunity or the market that is a match made in heaven for us is not where we think it will be. And whether it’s small or big, it forces us to think beyond what it is that we can see in our experience. And working with international brands as you do, that want to penetrate the China market: What advice do you give those people when they also want to become the go-to, or more important, stand out in a new country or in new markets?
Heidi
I tell all my clients that you have to have a goal. You have to have a dream. But when you’re working in China, and actually this is something I learned there, but I believe is really relevant for anyone and any brand, you have to stay flexible. And that means you need to know where you are going, who you are, and what the brand and company stand for, so the direction and where you want to go are very clear. How you get there should be changing constantly because the economy changes, and opportunities that come up can change. So for instance, Tina Arena; I’m sure her goal was to be an amazing singer and to really express herself, and in what country that happened probably didn’t really matter.
It was really about how she could express herself through her music. And that’s when you get opportunities that you would not otherwise. If I wanted to just be famous in Australia, it would be a very different story. And the same with Tina Arena. She probably wouldn’t have been as famous there, but because she was open to opportunities that came up and she knew exactly who she was and where she wanted to go, she is famous! It’s why I think a brand needs to have a vision; it needs to know very clearly who it is. And when I’m talking brand, that could be a product or it could be a person, but it should be a person. Every person should look at themselves as a brand because there is no person I know who has not had to market themselves. If anyone is married or has a boyfriend or a girlfriend, they marketed themselves. They showed the best that they could when they first met their partner. So this is a really important thing. How it happens is a different thing, but have a clear vision and stay super flexible and take the opportunities and make decisions as you’re going along.
Mary
And I love this because your word flexibility is such a powerful word. I see a lot of people trying to market themselves. They put all their eggs in one basket, and if that doesn’t work, they give up. And when you use the word flexibility, whether it’s a corporate brand or a personal brand or maybe someone on TV, it’s actually irrelevant because that’s the product. But when we look at how or where fame happens, we see it could be from podcasts, it could be networking events, it could be partnering. Maybe we are co-creating with another organization. There are many different ways to be seen and heard as the go-to expert. And I love the word flexibility because it shows that we have to be open to going wherever the flow takes us.
Heidi
Absolutely. But anyone who’s listening might think it means you sort of do something but don’t finish it. You just move to the next thing. But that’s not at all what I’m talking about. I’m definitely someone who finishes what I start. It’s important to understand when to jump onto an opportunity. In the past, I always jumped onto someone else’s bandwagon, someone else’s train. They used me to accelerate their brand and things like that.
And then about 10 years ago, I decided to build my own train others can jump on or off whenever they want, but this train is going in this direction. Yes, I will partner with people. And when I decide to drive their train, that is a conscious decision. But I never let my train stop. And no matter what’s happening around me, if someone says no to me, that’s okay. They weren’t meant to get onto my train anyway.
Mary
Absolutely! So, what do you think it truly takes to be an influencer and celebrity? Based on what you just said, is it a matter of strategically aligning yourself with the right people, with the right organizations? Is there an element of a conscious strategy, what I would call strategic and deliberate? What advice would you give on that?
Heidi
Most people don’t realize that I am very strategic. Everything I do is strategic down to what I wore, what earrings I wore, what lipstick I wore, and how high my shoes were, all based on whom I was going to meet and what I was going to do that day. I believe that how I present myself is one of my strongest tools to influence. And to be able to succeed in what I’m doing, every single morning, I ask myself some questions. ”What am I doing today? What’s the impact that I want to have? How can I create that impact visually?” Whether it’s how I stand and literally by the height of my heels, I will consider it.
I have a ten-year plan and a five-year plan, and then I take each down to a monthly one. And every single day I have a high-value action that has to be ticked off before I do anything else. On my board next to me are my three- year goals, my one-year goals, the next four months, the next month, week, and day, all mapped out. I can tell you exactly what I’m doing and the value that it will have on my company.
Mary
You just raised a very important point, and it’s about breaking the macro into micro and knowing that day, week, month, and year you are on a trajectory. You still have to be flexible, but you know exactly what that end game looks like. And as you say, there are going to be people getting on and off your train. But I truly believe in breaking things down into micro and standing by that because it delivers results. Even when I’m working with my clients, I give them a specific 90-day launch plan. These are the markers, the things you have to do every day for 90 days to get this result. And also it’s a feedback loop. Would you agree with that? If you are putting all this stuff out there and you’re not getting the results, something’s wrong. Correct?
Heidi
Heidi
Yes! It’s where you focus. And what’s wonderful is that by focusing on the things that create an impact, you’re getting results. There’s a real sense of joy. Some people wonder what they have done with their life until you sit them down and remind them that they got married, bought a house and a car, and they’ve had a child. These are amazing, amazing things that they’ve done. But because they’re not conscious of them, they don’t always see or celebrate them.
But you’ve gotten very specific, telling yourself you’re going to finish this today. Every single day I finish my day and I go, bam, I got it done. And then I get the opportunity to celebrate daily, weekly, and monthly the things I did that created an impact.
Mary
And to build on that, you’re also creating momentum. So there’s this energy vortex that you create and the more that energy expands, the more opportunities come toward you. So there’s value in that from that standpoint.
Heidi
It’s so true. And that energy attracts like energy. And that’s why a millionaire attracts all other millionaires! Their persona and energy are attracting them! So when you start to get on this, you’ll find people with like- minded energy who will be attracted to you. And that’s where your influence over more people, the celebrity status or fame, becomes bigger and wider.
Mary
And almost effortless as well, which is the other great thing about it.
Heidi
And effortless becomes enjoyable.
Mary
Yes, exactly. So when you get 6 million views on your show, which to this day still happening, what’s life like for you when you walk down the street in downtown Shanghai?
Heidi
I walk around in a bubble at times. The Chinese people are just so respectful; sometimes I can hear the whispering, ”Oh my God, that’s the girl from the TV show.” Sometimes they’ll come up and ask me for a photo. But my days are very normal. They’re very simple. I’m a massive family person, so I hang out with my kids most of the time. And generally, people leave me alone. They watch me on TV, and they like that they see me walk past, but that’s usually about the extent of it. Yes, we definitely sometimes get those who get so incredibly excited, and they sort of attach themselves to me. But, it’s just so lovely when they do that too.
Mary
You’re a very normal person. That’s why. I think there’s so much opportunity, hearing you talk about your experience, and your business, and just the fact that you have created this incredible brand around you speaks volumes. But it also shows other people that there’s opportunity all around us, Heidi. And, I think that the reason that we don’t see too many people going down this path of opening themselves up and seeing what is possible is that a lot of us walk around in a facade. You know I call that our false self, trying to fit in, getting validation even from their social media posts and agreeing, rather than being a hundred percent unapologetically themselves.
And I think people prefer to fit in with everyone rather than be a party of one or a very small circle of influence. So I loved reading your interview in the Australian Financial Review; everything in that article was so you! If you and I were sitting down together having dinner, that would be the Heidi I would expect. The article was amazing because it perfectly described you. There wasn’t one part of the interview that I thought was false or exaggerated either, because that is exactly how I experienced you just talking over Zoom. How critical then do you think it is to be you? Is this the secret ingredient that we all have, but we’re all so scared to declare?
Heidi
If we are not being ourselves, then what? I don’t really see the point in it. When I say that, though, I am also very conscious that I’ve had an amazing upbringing with parents who were so supportive of me being whom I am – being silly or pursuing things like acting at the time. My father’s a civil engineer, who had to wonder what the hell was going to happen to his daughter! At the same time, he wholeheartedly supported me. That’s not what everyone has been exposed to. And my real advice is that you have to be very disciplined in taking time every single day for yourself and asking yourself whom you want to be … what you want to do in this life.
The more you ask yourself that – just that one simple step – every single day, the more the answers will reveal themselves, and you will understand that not everyone wants to do what you want to do. But not wanting to be on TV, to have a podcast, or put themselves forward doesn’t mean they can’t have impact and influence. There are a lot of people in this world whose faces or names we don’t see much, and yet they have a huge impact and they’re very good at what they do. That might be the road for others.
That’s why you need to continually ask yourself where you want to be in a month’s or year’s time. You did many exercises a year ago, and this is where you wanted to go. But things have and will continue to change. So ask this every day: ”Is this actually what I want? How many times have I changed who I am? Was what I said I wanted based on what I really wanted?” It’s like digging a tunnel. You take out a little bit of earth and you start to discover what’s underneath. And the more you dig, the more you really understand what is there and what you know, what assets you have.
Mary
I love that. Now, let’s put Heidi’s business hat on for a moment. If you were to talk to us as your business self, knowing that it is a competitive market on a global scale, what advice would you give someone who wants to penetrate new territories?
Heidi
You need to be absolutely prepared. You need to be committed, and make sure that you’ve got the time for it. If you are looking at something like entering the China market, you need commitment and you need connection. Just saying you’re just going to give it to this person to build is the wrong thing to do. I always believe in commitment and the utter belief that you will make it happen no matter what. And once you have that, you want to have a look at how you can financially support that business for a certain period of time. And who can you get if it’s in a different country? Whom can you get that believes in your product as much as you do? Who will stand by the product and your company as much as you do to help you penetrate the market?
Mary
Heidi, just walk us through some initiatives that you are working on at the moment because it’ll be very nice for people to see that you actually walk your talk. You are always involved in different projects, government projects, and private enterprises, and helping women shine. Just walk us through some of the initiatives that you are working on in 2023.
Heidi
Just to make it clear, I have two different clients. One is a consulting client, helping them expand and grow in China. And then the other one, one is that we created is our own brand. So I’ve got Heidi Dugan, which is all about me and what I’m doing. And then we’ve got the new brand that we’re launching, which is Rize. This is about coaching women to have more abundant, healthier, happier lives. And through those two projects, we partner and connect with the Chinese government, and the Australian, American, and UK governments, and help brands tap into that. So this year we’re going to be doing three large events. The next one is in April, and we’ve got 500 women coming into the room. And Miss Universe from China will be one of the speakers.
We’ve got brands that will actually be presenting their products on the day. And it’s really about transforming these women’s lives. We’re really very supported by the government here because it’s something that they’re also incredibly interested in and feel very passionate about. It is the health and well-being of the Chinese citizen and really empowering the Chinese woman as a businesswoman, as a mother. And it is also that sort of key focus of the family and elevating that and really giving them the platform to step forward and then to shine
Mary
That’s so encouraging, and it’s also encouraging for me just to hear that the Chinese government is so supportive of women entrepreneurs. I can’t tell you how happy that makes me feel because it just goes to show that there’s a difference between what you read in the media and what the truth actually is.
So we have come to the end of our interview, Heidi, and I ask all of my guests this one last question. If you could meet someone who is no longer living, whom would it be and what would you ask or what would you want to know?
Heidi
The first person that I can think of is Audrey Hepburn.
Mary
Beautiful.
Heidi
Yes, her grace, her impact, and her legendary status are unparalleled. And she’s someone that I’ve always admired. I’d be interested to see what some of those key habits were that was really important for her and motivated her to become or to be the person that she was. And to have such an impact, such a wide impact on so many people.
Mary
I love it. I absolutely love it, and I absolutely love you. So if anyone wants to contact you, what is the best way for them to reach out to you?
Heidi
Yeah, so all through my social media, but heididugan.com is the easiest way because it’s got all my social media links into it. And, I welcome anyone to sign up and book a meeting with me, if they’d like to chat, whether it’s about personal branding or about the China market.
Mary
Thank you, Heidi. You are an amazing human being. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you, and it’s actually an honor for me to put you on the front cover and showcase what an amazing human being and woman you are. And I’m just so honored to know you. So thank you for saying yes to this interview.
Heidi
Thank you so much. And everyone who is interviewed by you feels exactly the same. So it’s a real privilege for us too, to reach so many people. It’s just like, God, can’t we all just share more?
Mary
That people think like us, Heidi, that’s the problem. It takes one to know one. So little by little we keep extending it, and eventually, people will jump on. Thank you so much for being here.