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    Shay Rowbottom – How To Be The Go-to Expert By Mary Henderson

    Mary

    Shay, welcome to Industry Expert Magazine and podcast. It’s unbelievable to have you featured again on the front cover. And one of the reasons I wanted to feature you is because so much has changed in the last two or three years on social media. From a content standpoint, I’m seeing a demand for specialists and experts. I think generalists are a dying breed, and this is a good thing for people like us. It means there is a huge opportunity for new content across all social media platforms that is not from a digital marketing standpoint, but more on bigger topics that impact people or businesses. It’s more personal, backed up with wisdom. Are you seeing this shift yourself?

    Shay

    Absolutely. And thank you for having me again, Mary; it’s always a pleasure. I see that the world is ready for this kind of information now. And the business world and the business culture on social media historically have been full of masculine energy, and very analytical. They’ve been about getting right to the results, and not about feelings. But this is shifting because people are starting to understand that part of getting results has to do with what is going on inside the home because that is ultimately impacting the way that you’re able to perform at work. There’s a much bigger conversation going on now around limiting beliefs, energy, physical health, and even mind, body, and spirit, which are all connected. So the more I can actually do my spiritual training and work on my soul health, the better I’ll be able to attract business.

    And that’s why I think we’re seeing a shift online where more creators are making a splash and getting reach, talking about things that were historically taboo. So I, for one, am very excited. I think the world is ready for this now. And, in the end, it’s not only going to produce more money, but it’s going to get people more aligned with where they actually need to go in a career. Another issue we’ve had is so many people working jobs they don’t actually like. And the more that you can get right with God or your internal soul, I’ll say the more you can actually find a career path that you enjoy.

    Mary

    Oh my God, you are speaking my language. You know, a few years ago, the video was making waves from a content standpoint, especially across all social media platforms. And I think the content was very linear, very masculine. It was very much a push strategy, particularly on LinkedIn. TikTok-style videos are now the thing, but in your opinion and experience, what do you think is the best content or medium for people who want to position themselves as an authority because they are an authority in their area of specialization? Is it still video? Is it visuals? Is it text only?

    Shay

    Great question. I think it’s first about understanding who exactly you’d like to attract, because there is a huge difference in what sort of content you can get away with, depending on the age of your demographic. If you are marketing to a younger audience, like millennials, I agree TikTok videos make more sense because those people have short attention spans and they’re also on platforms that have shorter content. Once you get into Gen X or the middle-aged demographic, you can get away with longer-form content, something a lot of those older people prefer. They don’t like the all-in-your- face content; it’s just too much. They still read articles; they’ll listen to a whole podcast. They’re more present. And we do see more content like that on platforms like LinkedIn.

    Facebook, believe it or not, is even now considered an older platform, which is funny. I would say it depends on where the age group of your demographic. However, you can also be strategic and market yourself in all formats and just test what works best for you. Even if you have a demographic that’s primarily 40 and 50, and you notice that articles or longer- form videos work well for them, you can still cut that content up, repurpose it, and post 15- second clips on TikTok. You never  know whose kid might be watching. And now you get the attention of a child of your prospect and they say, ”Hey, Mom, did you see this person there talking about what you’re into?” And then you have another avenue to market. So, I’m always about going with the data, about what your specific audience is. Put your energy there first. But then if you have the bandwidth and you can branch out and invest in all platforms, go for it and explore the different formats and the different lengths. There’s someone watching everywhere who might not be the one to buy from you, but they are going to become a brand ambassador for you and recommend you to someone who can buy.

    Mary

    I agree with you. And we are not talking here about getting famous quickly, as people were doing 3, 4, 5, or 10 years ago. I think we’ve really shifted from that place where a lot of people wanted to get famous quickly because they didn’t have the patience when it came to building their social and brand currency. And from your experience, particularly  on LinkedIn, what do you think today in 2023 is important when it comes to building your authority on a platform, specifically like LinkedIn?

    Shay

    You know, LinkedIn has evolved a lot and the platform certainly has its popularity contest, if you will, around people who can get the most reach. But people are waking up and realizing a lot of those pages that get a lot of reach to have no substance behind the posts. Oftentimes you’ll see a re-shared video that’s not even theirs. It’s ripped from  some YouTube page. They just know it’ll go viral, and then they try to spin it back to their own brand. And it’s really lazy work to get a lot of reaches. I understand the appeal of growing followers and trying to build your base up as much as you can. But people are  smarter now. The micro-influencers and the people who are speaking on one niche-specific topic over and over again, going deep into what they know and talking directly to those they want to attract, are a lot more successful financially than the people just playing the popularity game.

    And what’s interesting about that, Mary is even influencer marketing has shifted to now favor the micro-influencer in the smaller pages. Historically, we saw a lot of people who wanted a million followers, to get an X, Y, Z brand deal. But those million followers might

    be extremely diluted because your page is all over the place with way too much fluff. Whereas the person with 15,000 followers is so specific to their niche that the marketing dollars are actually going to those pages to market and advertise  relevant  crossover offers to their audience as well. So I would say stick with your expertise. Stick with what you know, and have patience grow slowly. The followers will come.

    One of my business coaches said she made her first million dollars with 3,000 followers because she was patient and went so deep and so niche and didn’t focus on the vanity metrics. She just focused on the audience she already had, asking them questions. ”What’s been most valuable to you guys? What do you want to hear more of? Whom do you want me to interview on my page? What sort of program would you like me to create that could support you guys?” The followers will come. And you know what, even if they don’t come, that’s fine. I think most people now in this business world, and especially those listening to this interview, care more about money and the bottom line and actually getting results with their content. So I would say post what you know, have patience, and the followers will come.

    Mary

    Shay, I just want to validate what you just said. This magazine that I’ve created has been going on for three years. It started with a post idea of just a front cover of a magazine, an image that I did to support the post. Then it became two pages, five pages, and ten pages. It’s now a full-fledged production. But the key is that the focus is on the people. I only want to serve industry experts. And I know that there’s a gap in that space, which is why I like creating this content. The other thing is that my worst-performing post from a  vanity metric standpoint was my highest return on investment.

    So I might get 20 likes as opposed to 150 or 200 likes, but there could also be several DMs asking to book a call with me. Do you see what I’m saying? People don’t always understand that concept. I think that we are moving into this notion that there are a lot of ”me too” experts talking  about  the importance of building your personal brand. And I find this hilarious because you  can’t build your personal brand; you  can  only define it. Your audience, prospects, and clients build your brand. So vanity metrics, therefore, have no value. And in saying that, the most important outcome of building your brand currency is the ability to commercialize it. A lot of these people who talk about personal branding have no idea how to commercialize it, which is one of my specializations and it’s one of yours as well. So let’s unpack this a little, Shay. From your standpoint, why do content creators struggle to commercialize their brand presence on social media platforms?

    Shay

    Well, first I want to acknowledge what you said about that last question and having more conversions on posts with fewer views. I experienced the same thing, Mary, and don’t be fooled. Sometimes something that looks from a content creator standpoint like it flopped on my page actually made me the most money that month. And you can bet your butt I will be posting that again at some point. Sometimes what people like to view and watch is not what they like to buy, so I’m glad that you brought that up. And, as far as the content creators not being able to commercialize, I think it’s just what you and I have talked about in the past, which is that these people don’t necessarily have anything to commercialize. They don’t necessarily have expertise.

    And now the whole offer of just ”Hey, I grew up a bunch of followers. I can help you do it too” is dying. People don’t care about that as much anymore. When all you have, when the weight of your brand is just you made yourself famous and you can help others do it too, it’s really not going to hold up anymore. You need to find an expert, something that you can specialize in. If you don’t have one, go get one. What are you interested in? Buy courses. Hire coaches. Actually hone your skills. Because if you have been just a popularity-contest content creator and you’ve done the work of growing a following, you will have success if you go and find an actual tangible skill to sell. Of course, some of your audience might leave because they were never there for that. But who cares? You’re going to attract new followers, and you’ve already got the base built.

    Mary

    Do you know what, Shay? I just deleted 4,500 people from my email list, because I want to make space for the people I actually can serve. I think that there’s a real fear around losing or letting go rather than knowing that you’re okay to let go because you want to make space for others. But I want to touch on something else that I think is  really critical, and that is a lot of people consume a lot of free content. To me, this is dangerous. It’s something that I’ve decided that I won’t be doing moving forward because giving away free content in the form of webinars, masterclasses, or eBooks is not the solution.

    It’s one dot of something much bigger. And to me, it’s a false start. My core value is true, and that is not the truth. Do you see what I’m saying? I’m in conflict with my values when I do that. So for 2023, my view is I don’t consume any free content anyway. But I’m not going to give away free content in the form of webinars  and  masterclasses anymore because it doesn’t align with my values. And it also doesn’t actually attract the right clients. Moving forward, we as business owners who are industry experts need  to stop focusing on giving away free content in exchange for being loved, and instead give away microcontent in the form of posts on social media that have massive value in small drops, which will essentially build our brand currency anyway. So it’s the same outcome, but you just do it differently. What’s your view on the consumption of all of this free content? The people and the prospects that I’ve spoken to that have consumed my free content are still consuming free  content. They haven’t actually moved from  where they were two, or three years ago. They’re still at the start line. So do you see a lot of this? And if you do, what’s your take on that?

    Shay

    Information and content especially are such a commodity now. I agree with what you’re saying because I too have a lot of followers who engage with my content, like and share my posts, and yet I’ve never seen a dime from them. Probably never will. The reason I’ve also made peace with that is because I recognize they’re supporting me and they’re pushing me out to  other feeds just by being such a fan and talking about me. So, there is that, but I agree with what you’re saying, that there’s a level of energy that we as the business owner have to protect. And if we are making content and putting ourselves out there with the energy of resentment, like expecting a certain  thing back and not getting it, we’re not actually being  authentic to our own company.

    I have taken breaks from creating content. I’ve known other business  owners who’ve had to step back from making content when it switched from doing it as a labor of love to something negative. I genuinely don’t have an expectation here. I’m just sharing my expertise in little tidbits because I want to, just like you mentioned, and I’m just trusting that the right business will show up when that changes and that energy starts to become a drain. From that last post, I thought I’d get more. Take a reset, take a step back, and redefine your content strategy. At the end of the day, people can also feel your energy through your posts.

    I’ll be talking about it more, but absolutely, if you need to take a step back, do it. I can tell when a creator that I love is drained, and they’re now doing it from a place of obligation and it’s not fun anymore. And it really is a recipe for disaster. So take breaks. I do like to give away free tips in my content, but I only do a bit at a time and I do enough so that people understand I’m legit. And they can see that I know what I’m talking about. But at the end of the day, what you mentioned is the key, which is the meat and potatoes you have to pay for.

    Mary

    And, when we look at that notion around authenticity, it’s not just about telling stories that are authentically me, but it’s also about how energetically I’m showing up today. I’m genuinely sharing some wisdom or a  story that could help you, impact you, move you, or shift your paradigm. So for me, 2023 is about exactly that, creating content that is  a hundred percent aligned with who I am, because I don’t need the vanity metrics. And that’s the peace that I’ve had to make. I just want people to know who I am, based on what I think, what I feel, and the wisdom that I

    carry. That’s where I see genuine content creators who are industry experts making a shift and moving to that place, which I call that transformational leadership. What’s your take on that?

    Shay

    I completely agree. And another thing that you made me think of just now is that people underestimate how much they really need to share with you. How many posts a week; two posts a week is fine if you’re an industry expert, as long as they’re coming with value. I think a lot of people get hung up by thinking they need five posts a day, but they actually just end up diluting their own brand. And like you said, giving away too much. So definitely put out content when you’re called to put it out. There’s a famous musician, named Skylar Gray. She’s a songwriter who’s a little bit more behind the scenes, and she’s got a few pretty popular tracks. She says, ”I don’t write music every day. I write music when I’m called to write music.”

    Mary

    I love that.

    Shay

    Exactly. She’s written many hit songs that get picked up and bought by artists to perform because she only puts out there what is authentically coming through her at the right time. So a high percentage of what she’s creating is getting sold off and is so valuable because she’s not forcing herself to create when she doesn’t actually feel aligned with creating. Also stacking content: Just keep in mind that if you have a log of everything you’ve ever created and you track how many leads come in and what works, you can always go back and rinse and repeat a lot of the same things you are passionate about and  that work.

    Mary

    Absolutely. Let’s touch on LinkedIn again, just because I know a lot of industry experts are more favorable to LinkedIn than other platforms, so LinkedIn has made a lot of changes this year. Can you just touch on the important changes and how they impact our reach?

    Shay

    Absolutely. I was very upset because LinkedIn had finally implemented pinned  comments, but they’ve gotten rid of them again. Now there are a few mundane kinds of features I could talk about, like scheduling posts. I do think that’s awesome if you’re busy and you want to schedule a post. But I also think if you’re going to post at a certain time, you should be close to the computer at that time because you want to jump on the comments. If there are some leads and persons  of interest in there, the sooner you can get to them and show them you’re a real person, the better. But while I thank LinkedIn for finally having a feature like that, I don’t necessarily see the value.

    What’s interesting, though, Mary, is now that LinkedIn has become a lot more of a creator platform, it is auto-following you when you reach out to connect with someone. Meaning if I was not connected to Mary Henderson and I sent you a connection request, it would just auto-follow you. So now I’m a follower of your page just because I showed interest in connecting. That tells us that there are a lot more people there for the content and for the community. And LinkedIn has changed a lot from being in the place to only post articles with a very dull newsfeed to actually having some heavy-hitter thought leaders and industry experts spitting some awesome content. So I would say if you’re into a certain

    topic and you want to follow more podcasts or more creators, and you’re going on Facebook, going on Instagram, going on Apple Podcast to find all of these people, don’t discount LinkedIn; there are a lot of people you can learn from there as well.

    I do see nano learning as an awesome opportunity if you already have a lot  of content on LinkedIn. For example, Mary, since you have a lot of content already produced in one niche, you would be a contender for the LinkedIn nano platform, which is essentially LinkedIn Learning condensed into short courses. I have a course on LinkedIn Learning that is just seven videos, each a minute long, just around how to jumpstart video content. And I was able to get my content on there because I already had so much content on it that LI reached out and asked if they could take my videos, remix them, and kind of re- edit them to put on here. It was no extra work on my end.

    I have a new avenue for people to discover me on LinkedIn, and they pay royalties to everyone who watches that course, and who has a LinkedIn Learning subscription.  And they also pay you $5,000 up front for the content that you already had sitting there because you’re talking about a specific niche. So definitely reach out to LinkedIn, because they’re looking for people right now.  Ask about the nano learning program. It’s super quick and easy. It’s not like a long-drawn-out process, like a full-on LinkedIn  learning course. It’s a great way to get your feet wet working directly with LinkedIn and it’s another avenue. There are a lot of people and corporations that will pay for their staff  to have subscriptions to nano learning.  And those people never normally go on LinkedIn. But they’re going to go on the nano learning, and they’re going to discover you where they might not have known you before.

    So that’s great, definitely more B2B, like you mentioned. There are a lot more people coming to the platform, though, who are B2C. So that’s exciting. And ultimately it’s just not another business platform anymore. There’s LinkedIn Live, there’s video, and there are sliders. But it’s tough to see what’s going to happen with LinkedIn because it’s always a little bit behind other platforms, although I do think a lot of people are seeing that this is the place to be as well if they’re already an industry expert and if they already have content to post.

    Mary

    Yes, I absolutely agree with you. You said in a podcast interview that LinkedIn is a collaborative platform, and people tend to connect and make things happen. Facebook is very competitive, and I feel LinkedIn is more soul-driven and Facebook is more  mind driven. And you and I are a perfect example of that. We have collaborated on so many things. We support each other’s work all the time. Would you agree that collaborating with the right people actually elevates your brand?

    Shay

    Absolutely. And you’re right: LinkedIn is a great place for that. I find that LinkedIn is a place where people like to see one another win. Everyone is here to level up. Everyone is here to make money. Everyone is here to support the highs. I’ve met a lot of powerful people on LinkedIn, many who’ve hired me, many of whom I’ve hired as a coach. One client leads to another client, leads to another client. Not to mention when people come to me for my specific expertise, which is helping them to create content for the first time, they sometimes ask for things that I don’t service.

    But I have people on LinkedIn I can refer them to as well, such as you for creating a digital transformational program. It’s just awesome when you can build up your own arsenal of experts and know you don’t have to go learn any of those hard skills to collect revenue. I can just get a commission off everyone I refer to these people I know and trust that I’ve also worked with on LinkedIn.

    Mary

    Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s such a powerful way of looking at it. Shay, just to close off in this interview, I think a lot of people who will be reading or listening to this are industry experts. Obviously, a lot of them are still very scared of putting themselves out there, with fear of being judged, or things of that nature. But if you don’t put yourself out there, you may as well go back to a nine-to- five job mindset that you actually hate, or even do something mundane that you really don’t like that doesn’t expand your creative faculty. What would you say is one way of overcoming that fear?

    Shay

    Everyone that you know, everyone they know, and everyone you can possibly think of right now in your life that you could know will all be in the ground in a hundred years. Everyone whom we fear is judging us right now will be dead in a hundred years. But we tend to get very caught up in the present, like what are the Kardashians doing? What’s here? What’s there? It’s like people forget that in a hundred years, even Kanye West, who’s so spoken about right now, admitted he will eventually be forgotten. People do forget; people move on. And I think when you are on your deathbed, you will realize you really just put your energy in the wrong places when you cared about what people might think.

    What do you think of yourself? If you create content or you create an offer and you feel excited about it, you’re like ”Wow, look at me. Gosh, this is great!” Or you create a business idea and you feel your soul in it. You just feel so good about it. That is a sign from the universe, and that is enough to know  you need to put it out there. And to the people who are upset about it or who hate it, it is more often a projection of themselves than having anything to do with you. So it does get easier the more you put yourself out there, the more you kind of develop blinders  to those sorts of things because so many people will be grateful for what you’re putting out that you don’t hear the haters  anymore. You’re so focused on everyone who has benefited and who you are able to support through your content. So if you feel excited about it and you like it, that’s all that matters.

    Mary

    That’s just the best advice I’ve heard in all of 2022. I absolutely love that. Now, one last question I ask all my guests, as you know. If you could meet one person who is no longer living, whom would it be and what would you ask or what would you want to know?

    Shay

    I remember last time who I said, and it’s a different person this time with a similar vibe. I would like to meet John Bradshaw.

    Mary

    Oh, I love him.

    Shay

    Yes. I can’t believe he’s dead. I’m so sad. But you know why I say John Bradshaw, this is for him and anyone like him, because it’s like Picasso. They didn’t really get to relish in the fruits of their labor because they were so ahead of their time. And if John Bradshaw were alive today, I would just ask him, ”Yo! What do you think about this  entire movement of people waking up to how dysfunctional our family units have been how shame-based we raise our children how addiction really starts in childhood and the household and not in adulthood?” He was the pioneer of codependency, of narcissistic relationships, all of these things that are mainstream now. They really weren’t talked about back when he got on stage. And I just find the courage in that type of person to be the first of their kind to stand on stage and talk about those things amazingly.

    To your last question, Mary, I don’t care if people think I’m crazy; I don’t care if people are going to hate on me for this. I know it’s new, I know it’s unique, and I know it’s different, but it was so alive in his soul. And it felt so right for him to teach and to bring these ideologies about. Thank you to John Bradshaw, because he’s been a huge supporter in my own personal healing. He just created a movement of people who are now waking up to create better marriages and better home life for our children.

    Mary

    I learned so much from him too. I actually listen to the audio sometimes when I can’t sleep at night instead of meditation audio; I listen to him because he’s just me.

    Absolutely awesome, Shay. You know, I love you so much. You are such a shining light. You shine bright like a diamond. I support everything that you stand for, and everything that you are, and always will support you. And thank you so much for accepting the second interview with a rebranding of the magazine, and hopefully, we can do many more interviews.

    Shay

    Absolutely. Thank you, Mary, for having me. Anytime. Congrats on the new magazine. It’s an honor to be featured, and you keep doing the same, sister: Keep shining your light. I love you so much.

    Mary

    Thank you. And Shay’s details will be below so you can contact her on LinkedIn, on her website, and on email.

    Shayrowbottom.com
    Linkedin.com/in/shayrowbottom

    Mary Henderson
    Mary Hendersonhttps://www.maryhendersoncoaching.com
    Mary is a Transformational Leader. She amplifies ambitious, self-led and heart centred Industry Experts turn their knowledge, wisdom and skills into a go-to brand and business so they can create impact in the world.

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